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Don't blame the bank for going overdrawn

The Write Factor: Where did you think the money was going to come from if the Banks had lost their case over overdraft charges, ask Ellen Arnison?

By Ellen Arnison

25 November 2009 13:18 PM

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Don't blame the bank for going overdrawn

What if you went out for dinner somewhere rather fancy – you know, all candles and veggies stacked in exact cubes. The sauce is served on the side of the large square plate as if the chef stuck his thumb in it.

It’s lovely. You have wine and pudding and coffee, romance is in the air if you haven’t eaten too much. Then you make that signing in the air gesture.

The bill comes – with fancy mints – and you’re £4.67 short.

You tell the restaurateur: “It’s OK mate. I knew I was cutting it fine. The shortfall’s about the same as one of our lattes, two oatcakes and half the stilton we scoffed. You’ve got plenty more, I can see that, the place is packed and your fridges are full. So, I’ll bring the cash in next week on payday... or maybe the week after...”

Does he bring your coat and give you a cheery wave as you go? Does he say “No problem, and if you can’t manage the other diners’ll happily make it up” or “Come again soon, we’ve got loads of Champagne in the cellar”?

Thought not. Of course, he gets really cross and calls the rozzers. Eventually the full force of the law is thrown at you and you’ll have to stump up a fine worth far more than the last 20 minutes of a gut-busting dinner.

And my point? The world seems to have forgotten the banks are in it for the profit, not to kindly help out if our pay won’t quite stretch this month.

We know now that the banks (boo hiss) won their appeal at the Supreme Court. That means that unauthorised overdraft penalties have been deemed legal and those customers hoping for a refund-plus-interest windfall are out of luck.

And we also know that bankers are not on anyone’s Christmas card lists, what with bringing the economy to its knees by lending to anyone with a wallet, needing to be bailed out like overdrawn students, using the phonebook to pick the amounts to pay in bonuses and, most recently, to have been found sneaking round the back of the fiscal bike shed to pick up a government loan in a brown paper bag.

But, this time, we’re talking about fees for unauthorised overdrafts and whether the fee – maybe £30 each time a payment bounced – was fair. Apparently the business of saying “this punter can’t afford the cheque he wrote” only costs £2.50 a pop.

Since the first customers successfully claimed back their fees, £1bn has been paid out in “goodwill gestures” and many banks have already restructured how they do their overdraft fees.

Meanwhile, a cynical little industry has sprung up among the no-win-no-fee rattlesnakes, the flog grannies jewellery for cash and spend your paycheque a week early merchants.

Nasty little opportunists offered to do the irksome form filling so “deserving” customers could get “their” money back from the banks.

A ruling against the banks, and don’t forget their main function is to make money for shareholders would have cost them £2.6bn a year in lost income.

But as they aren’t a form of social support for the financially feckless, you could bet your last pound on them finding other ways to raise that money.

It would have heralded the end of free banking for those of us who keep tabs on their cash and don’t go into the red without asking.

And as many of the banks are working on handouts of our cash – who do you think would have ended up footing the repayment bill anyway?

Ellen Arnison is a finalist in stv.tv's The Write Factor competition. The views expressed are not necessarily those of STV plc. If you would like to read more from this writer, use our comment system below.

Last updated: 25 November 2009, 13:29

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  1. Default avatar

    1. 25 Nov 2009 15:12WBG said

    I see your point and know there are some stupid people out there, but it is hard to feel anything but disgust at the bankers. The thought of them slapping backs and smoking cigars at their victory is sickening. They are culpable in many of the financial problems familys have. It's not simple enough just to call people financially feckless. If a bank sees an account going into the red then it should act to help, it doesn't it acts in a opportunistic way to make as much money out of that account holder's misery as possible. Greed is their motive. The profits of a few years ago were obscene and the sight of some the same bankers making similarly ludicrous profits now as others find themselves out of work and out of a home should make right thinking people want to vomit. I'm away to puke.

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    2. 25 Nov 2009 15:29nearlyman said

    No, they're a form of employment for the financially feckless. Like the idea of a fiscal bike shed, though.

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    3. 25 Nov 2009 15:33DJH said

    Your restaurant analogy is a valid one - up to a point. The way the banks operated for so long was more like them telling you that since you didn't have the small shortfall, it had automatically increased 10-fold (all the costs involved in the waiter talking to you, you know). They applied these charges even to people who were in the red for just a day - meaning that for people on a tight budget, they would be in the red for two days the next month, three the next - and the unreasonable charges would just keep being piled on until the customer had no chance of pulling him or herself out of the mire.

    Yes, some of the victims were financially feckless. But they'd have paid smaller "fines" for

    committing GBH. And many other victims were just victims of timing and not having any room for financial manoeuvre.

    The banks made a fortune out of it - which they proceeded to squander.

    And I think free banking could be on the way out already - how else will the bankers make up the cash they've lost by cutting their charges to rather less punitive (but still not in line with real costs) levels?

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    4. 25 Nov 2009 15:54ladylala said

    To use your restaurant analogy, the trouble is the banks weren't just saying that you had to pay the £4.76 + an admin fee, they were saying 'we had someone run off without paying their bill last week. While you're paying your small surplus, you can pay for them too!'.

    Yes, there are people who go overdrawn without a care in the world, but often the banks were penalising people who had made simple errors. Pay going in a day late, or companies asking for a direct debit a day early. I had terrible problems once because I wasn't paid on my pay day because the woman who pressed send on our payroll was involved in an accident - this sent me overdrawn, I was charged £30 for that, then £30 for every direct debit that was nearly collected that day. I ended up having to pay around £300 in fines (and then moved my account)! I worked for a tiny charity supporting unpaid carers - seems a tad ruthless to charge them for the banks greed.

    I know the money would have to come from somewhere, and no one wants to have to pay for their bank accounts, but mainly this is a fine for people who don't have endless money in their accounts - ie. lower income people. Not on!

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    5. 25 Nov 2009 15:55ladylala said

    Ha! DJH isn't me honestly!

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    6. 25 Nov 2009 16:44maggie burke said

    the banks should stop the use of online payments from cards i cant withdraw or pay anything with my card so the money has to be there or i cant purchase. however lets say yes iv got money there bought and paid the purchase with my card ok yet it takes the bank ubtil the next week to take it from my acc charged £49 not my fault its the banks they have not efficiently done there job. d/d banks are not doing this efficiently enough ie when it comes in they ither wait or take it tooo early. its plain and simple there online card system and payment system simply doesnt work and the people suffer.I will be fighting this but it seems as a customer i cant get contact which i have requested with stephen hester yet he gets to make these decisions with our money not.Why all of a sudden does a judge agree with this because the goverments involved yes and we all know the government cando what they like and we allow them too. it is time this country stood up united and stop these people making these decisions for themselves between themselves before we end up a very poor country.If the government hadnt helped the banks out they would not have won.companies are going under every day just now why havent the government used the tax payers money to help the people they need ,to be in power because lets face it the banks would have went under like their customers due to bad decisions made by executives that were not qualified to do the job. I ll tell you why because they just do not care about the people. i will not allow this and i hope the rest of the people in my position feel the same. they fail us every day.

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    7. 25 Nov 2009 17:56sra said

    They (the nasty bad bankers!) shouldn't let you take the money out of your account if they're then going to charge you for the privilege.

    that would solve the problem, wouldn't it....and didn't it used to be like that in the good old days, when I was a squirrel super saver.....

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    8. 25 Nov 2009 19:18murph37 said

    Totally on the ball as always Ellen. And those bankers, very good at what they do, eh - all that banking!

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    9. 25 Nov 2009 19:19CMB said

    Gosh, the keyboard must have been red hot after you got that little lot off your chest! Great writing and very amusing images! I know the banks are 'in it for the profit' but couldn't they be a little less grabby about it? You see, as one from a distant generation (which occasionally feels like a different planet!) I wish nostalgically for a return to some of the values that prevailed then. When I first opened a bank account many years ago, I was introduced to the Bank Manager, and led to believe that the point of banks was "to keep your money safe"!! Wouldn't that be nice!

    Returning to today, if I keep my finances in order and don't accidentally 'borrow' I don't expect to have to pay any penalties. If I cross the line, I know what to expect.

    By the way, does anyone ever read all those directives from banks titled 'changes to the terms and conditions of your account. which we(the banks) are introducing to improve our service to you'. Rough translation - we are charging you more!!! Hey ho!

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    10. 26 Nov 2009 10:59zippo said

    I cannot remember the last time I left my bank manager a tip...

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    11. 26 Nov 2009 11:04Cello said

    Normally agree with Ellen's pearls of wisdom, but not this time.

    The banks have the poor by the you-know-whats, and that's the problem. You can't opt out of having a bank account these days. You're pretty well forced to let them manage what little you have.

    I have a friend, an ex-con who is now on the straight and narrow and a decent bloke, who has one lot of money going in his account twice a month (his benefits) and two DDs for his phone and telly. The money coming in is more than enough to cover what goes out, but if his payments are due over a weekend, the phone and TV companies take it early, often before his benefits have come in. Sometimes his benefits are a day or two late. The upshot of the variations in payments in and out is that about one month in three, he goes overdrawn and is charged £35 each time. I went into the bank with him to see the manager about 18 months ago to appeal for a bit of common sense and compassion. fair enough, if he spends £60 in a bar or restaurant, throw the book at him, but if he becomes overdrawn because somebody takes their money early or the because the govt pays him late, it's not fair to penalise him. Predictably, the manager heard what I was saying, but assured me he couldn't do anything. A total banker, like the rest of them.

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    12. 26 Nov 2009 11:11MMP said

    These posh eateries are full of fat bankers - just about the only folk who can afford to pay such bills these days!

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    13. 26 Nov 2009 11:12Mortimer said

    I agree - in 2009, we should the technology to make it impossible for someone to go overdrawn.

    Failing that, there should be some period of grace to account for slightly late wage payments, before the letter is sent off.

    And when the banks get it wrong they should sort it out immediately. My partner went overdrawn because of a bank's mistake, 24 hours before his regular payday. It took months to sort out, during which time the amount increased. At one point we got so worried about the possible effect onhis credit rating that we nearly paid up. It was a clear mistake on their part (as they finally admitted) and should have been sorted in minutes, not months.

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    14. 26 Nov 2009 11:15Halifax Roar said

    Most banks charge around £30 to anyone who goes overdrawn, whatever the circumstances are. it doesn't cost them that amount, it's pure profiteering on their part. An admin charge of a fiver might be fair enough, but to charge £30 a throw and then penalise every other transaction is simply the behaviour of loan sharks.

    We know they are not a cuddly industry, but you wouldn't believe it if you watched or read their adverts - banking is now structured in such a way that they don't even talk to customers unless they have to. Basically, it's sickening to see people who have driven the economy to its knees being able to penalise extortionately those who live on the breadline

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    15. 26 Nov 2009 11:18WBG said

    Fair comment Cello, let's hope the banker who refused to see common sense with your pal has similar troubles when his redundancy runs out and he needs to sign on.

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    16. 26 Nov 2009 11:50Kerryn said

    In South Africa I pay to have a bank account: a monthly fee. I then pay everytime I transact. If I have money coming in - I pay. Money going out - I pay. My overdraft I pay, and penalties...you get the picture.

    Here banking is big business, and our Big Four have no shame in fleecing the consumer (for interest, my monthly bank fees are approximately GBP30-40).

    So I have to agree. Why do we expect bankers to be fluffy, sweet philanthropists when they have done nothing to develop this expectation? If the bank has to pay your bills - you pay. Its simple. If you don't like it, or if it costs you to much to bank, then clearly you should be going back to basics: money stuffed under the mattress isn't a bad option. I still miss the UK system - where I bank for free, and if I contravene my banking agreements I pay. Seems like quite a fair deal from the hardened capitalists?

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    17. 26 Nov 2009 13:38RuthieP said

    Another fascinating insight from Ms Arnison. I'm afraid I have to agree with most of it, even though I'm reluctant to! It's our favourite soapbox subject: 'berate the baddie bankers'. But they (and she) do have a perfectly valid point and we really can't expect them to be charitable institutions; the analogy is spot on and let's face it none of us would try it in this the restaurant analogy or with any other commercial organisation.

    And while I have been in the situation of many of the respondents I still can't blame the bank. If we don't have the money then we can only hope they will play nicely and help us out, they really don't have any obligation to do so.

    And while we're talking about the bankers, I'm also getting a little tired of hearing how angry everyone is about their pay and bonuses. Sure they earn a great deal of money but I have never been tempted to become a banker, most of them are burned out before they're 40 and it's a very aggressive enironment. I prefer my somewhat safer work environment and that's my choice. I don't want to devote every waking moment to making money for these large institutions, I probably don't have the skills anyway, and I'd rather have a life. So good luck to them. If they're willing to do it and someone is willing to pay them all that money (as long as they've earned it, and it's not just a contractual right), then great - go for it.

    We should be much more focused on the root causes of the banking problem which I doubt we fully understand yet ...

    In the meantime let's stop hounding them and hope they get themselves sorted out so our economy can recover and we'll all be a lot happier (and so will our bank managers, whoever they are).

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    18. 26 Nov 2009 18:43Fionaoutdoors said

    I'm with Halifax Roar (and others) on this one. It's the size of the fee for going overdrawn that has annoyed me on many occasions. I was once charged £70 in total for going £1.25 overdrawn. This was apparently because each transaction carried out by the bank while I was in tiny debt to them was a standard charge of £35. I fought my corner with the bank and they did repay half the cost but not everyone would have had the time, energy or confidence to battle the bank. I think there should be a charge for an unauthorised overdraft but it should be representative of the amount that you go into the red, whether erroneously or deliberately. Great talking point Ellen.

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    19. 26 Nov 2009 22:09The Milt said

    Well, what did you expect? Of course the government were gonna side with the banks. The banks are skint...more than skint...they're overdrawn themselves. Of course the wee man will pay for it! There was no way the government/legal system was gonna turn against the banks on this one. Did ANYONE think the verdict would have been otherwise??

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    20. 27 Nov 2009 05:52Curmudgeon Kate said

    Another side to the coin here (stay with me, it’s relevant!)

    Five years ago a relation sold her vacant flat but the buyer pulled out. Then the relation starts to find letters from a bank regarding a loan the absent buyer has applied for. She phones bank and informs them that the person neither owns the property nor lives at that address and not to give them a loan. Next thing she finds a pile of letters demanding re-payment of the loan – I think it was 8k – she phones the bank, they tell her ‘not to worry,’ they have it on record that she forewarned them and they will ‘just write it off.’

    Ouch, ouch, and treble ‘ouch!’ Seems to me the banks had, and probably still have, got their priorities all wrong – that they are quite prepared to ‘write-off’ vast amounts procured by the criminal fraternity with a smile and a shrug and a bit of a sigh, because, well, let’s face it, their customers will stump up for the loss.

    Maybe (it’s just a thought) they should put their own house in order before they start apportioning blame and putting a dizzying spin on why their charges are reasonable for those terrible, terrible, people who go overdrawn. Maybe, (another thought) if they sorted out their other problems they wouldn’t actually need to charge as much?

    Tsk … I predicted years ago that the banks were gonna go bang … but did anybody listen … did they ‘eck!

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